On New Beginnings and Old Battles

IMG_3252Long time, no blog!  The Perrys have made it through another busy summer in touristy coastal Maine, and a month ago today, we pulled out of our driveway and headed south to central Virginia where my husband has taken a pastor position at New Beginnings Ministry. Big changes!  Although saying goodbye to our friends and church in Maine broke my heart, I am excited for the adventure of a new hometown, new friends, a year of homeschooling, new ministry opportunities, and getting back to Kingdom work here on the blog!

After so many busy months, my tank is on empty.  I am refueling with some good, nourishing books.  First, I read Jen Hatmaker’s book, Of Mess and Moxie, whose essays go from deep and convicting to belly-laugh-inducing.  Such a worthwhile buy, and I would highly recommend her podcast, if you’re into those. Second, I was thrilled to get my copy of Brené Brown’s newest book, Braving the Wilderness, a week after arriving in our new home. The timing couldn’t have been better, as I feel a bit like I’m living in the wilderness in this in-between phase of saying goodbye and not really feeling at home here yet, and also feeling the worry of being my authentic self as a pastor’s wife.  I was a pastor’s kid growing up, so the church has always been my second family, a deep love of mine, and also the source of much of my deepest pain.  I sat reading Braving the Wilderness in the bleachers while watching my sons’ football games that Saturday, shamelessly public-crying at multiple points throughout the book, as Dr. Brown demonstrates her findings on true belonging through touching and often heart-wrenching stories.

A section that has been on my mind over the past couple weeks, with the controversy over whether or not NFL players should kneel during the national anthem to protest police brutality and a criminal justice system that is rigged against people of color, was when Dr. Brown discussed the dehumanization process that is necessary for oppressive systems to subjugate others.  She describes the process as beginning with our language and escalating from there, and warns us to be vigilant against using demeaning, derogatory language towards others.  Quoting from the book:

An important example is the debate around Black Lives Matter, Blue Lives Matter, and All Lives Matter.  Can you believe that black lives matter and also care deeply about the well-being of police officers?  Of course.  Can you care about the well-being of police officers and at the same time be concerned about abuses of power and systemic racism in law enforcement and the criminal justice system?  Yes.  I have relatives who are police officers—I can’t tell you how deeply I care about their safety and well-being.  I do almost all of my pro bono work with the military and public servants like the police—I care.  And when we care, we should all want just systems that reflect the honor and dignity of the people who serve in those systems.

But then, if it’s the case that we can care about citizens and the police, shouldn’t the rallying cry just be All Lives Matter?  No.  Because the humanity wasn’t stripped from all lives the way it was stripped from the lives of black citizens.  In order for slavery to work, in order for us to buy, sell, beat, and trade people like animals, Americans had to completely dehumanize slaves.  And whether we directly participated in that or were simply a member of a culture that at one time normalized that behavior, it shaped us.  We can’t undo that level of dehumanizing in one or two generations.  I believe Black Lives Matter is a movement to rehumanize black citizens.  All lives matter, but not all lives need to be pulled back into moral inclusion.  Not all people were subjected to the psychological process of demonizing and being made less than human so we could justify the inhumane practice of slavery. (Brené Brown, Braving the Wilderness, pp. 76-77

I love the term rehumanizing.  It sounds like a synonym for redemption, or restoration.  A biblical vision for healing and shalom.  Beautiful Kingdom Warriors have been waging an age-old spiritual battle for the rehumanization of those who have been disenfranchised, abused, subordinated and made powerless to restore to them their God-given dignity and authority as humans made in the imago Dei.  It is extraordinary that we can be partners with God in this great work of redemption!

Evil is very real and very present in our world.  Our current age is marked by conflict.  “Blessed are the peacemakers,” Jesus taught us (Mt. 5:9).  What a challenge in our day!  In order to be a peacemaker, I believe we must be good listeners, to strive to understand the perspectives of conflicting sides in order to facilitate reconciliation and peace.  Being a peacemaker involves restoring justice and shalom for all.

However, as social beings, we instinctively gravitate into tribes, and in our sinful nature, we instinctively consider our tribes to be better than others and to draw lines of inclusion and exclusion.  Yet we all belong to one race, the human race, we all bear God’s image, we are all equally loved by our Savior.  As Christians, our deepest place of belonging and identity should be in the Kingdom of God, as God’s beloved children.  We should not be so tied to a church denomination, political party, race, nation, etc. that we fail to love our neighbors (Mt. 22:39) and consider others better than ourselves (Phil. 2:3).

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Google these names, bear witness to their stories, imagine how you would respond if these were your loved ones.

Additionally, we are told by the Apostle Paul to “weep with those who weep” (Romans 12:15). I cannot help but grieve with my black brothers and sisters when men and women and children are murdered through police brutality.  Blood cries out from the ground for justice, and God hears those cries.  We should be angry about the injustice black men and women face in our criminal justice system.  We should lament our nation’s history of dehumanizing the lives of people of color in order to become “great.”  We should fight racism and white nationalism for the evil that it truly is.  One of my favorite quotes is from the founder of Samaritan’s Purse, Bob Pierce, who prayed, “Let my heart be broken by the things that break the heart of God.”  Racism surely grieves the heart of God.

The Church that I love so much has wolves in sheep’s clothing, abusers preying on the vulnerable.  On a weekly basis, I read a story of a pastor caught molesting children, or a deacon who has murdered his family.  I sometimes post these stories to TBKW Facebook page.  Some of the highest rates of domestic violence by career are in the clergy, military and police.

An example of “bad apples” in the Church from my own life is that during a three year time-frame while my family served with New Tribes Mission, three men were dismissed for sexually abusing children.  Three out of only dozens of missionaries in those contexts.  And they were dismissed, not reported for their crimes, and surely went on to harm more victims.  Injustice that grieves the heart of God.

If the Church is not immune to evil, why do we think our police force is?  There should be reform and training and consequences for abuses of position in our police force.  Yet white Evangelical Christians statistically get caught in the either/or tribes of being pro-police or pro-patriotism rather than the Kingdom vision for justice and shalom for all.  We can want what is best and safest for our police as well as for private citizens.  We can have a more nuanced position than the options that are presented to us.

I don’t really know much about Kaepernick.  But I agree that Black Lives Matter, and I protest injustice and the dehumanization of black people in our criminal justice system.

As Beautiful Kingdom Warriors, we are partnering with God in the work of restoration and healing of this broken, fallen world.  The most powerful way that we accomplish this mission is in loving God and loving our neighbors, and that extends beyond our tribes.  I am thankful to Dr. Brené Brown for the language of rehumanizing those who have been diminished by injustice.

I think this Beautiful Kingdom Warrior and American patriot has the right idea in joining the #takeaknee movement, explaining his support as “wanting to be like Jesus”:

“The world is broken. But God is not done yet.  God’s work of restoration is not yet finished.  This is our hope.  God is our hope.”  – Pastor Eugene Cho

Amen.


I am so happy to have you here!  Please leave a comment with your own thoughts on loving our neighbors and being peacemakers in this broken, conflict-ridden world.  I’ll approve if you’re respectful.

I have written about racial reconciliation before here.  I pray that white Evangelicals will begin to listen well to their black brothers and sisters.  I would encourage you to follow black theologians and authors, listen to their podcasts, read their articles and books; for instance, this year I have read Lisa Sharon Harper’s “The Very Good Gospel” and have listened to the podcast Truth’s Table, “Midwives of culture for grace and truth” with Michelle Higgins, Christina Edmondson, and Ekemini Uwan.

And “Like” us on Facebook!  I may not always blog, but I have a daily stream of articles from around the web that I have found to be interesting, helpful, or important for raising awareness of gender issues in the Church.

God bless and come again!

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Guest Post: For the women who have been held back because of their gender

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This is for all the women who have ever been held back because of her gender:

I am a woman.

Beautiful, strong, and kind.

Teacher. Leader. Educator. God lover.

Spiritual. Emotional. Trying not to be cynical.

Because there are people who don’t see me for the person that I am – inside.

They see me as one-dimensional. Daughter of Eve. High heels. Tight jeans.

Sometimes I like red lips and too much mascara.

They see my womanhood as a threat. A temptress. Seductive.

Even with 30 extra pounds and graying hair, I’m a distraction. A nuisance.

Am I a disturbance? Someone to put on a shelf. Not needed. Not appreciated. Not valued. Not included.

No.

I am feminine. I am a mother. Daughter. Friend. Human being.

My voice matters. My opinions are valuable and significant. My ideas are worthy and creative.

I am NOT Charlie Brown’s teacher – open your ears and listen.

My existence should be praised. Honored.

If my presence makes you uncomfortable, that is on you – not me.

I will not apologize for my body type and my hair length.

Women are not just curves and shapes in clothing.

We are brains, strength, power.

If you would see us for who we are, not what we look like, you could learn.

I could teach you.

You could see that we could have a seat at the table. SHOULD have a seat at the table.

The lies need to be silenced and you should awaken to the truth, that I – that women – can do and be ANYTHING.

We are enough. I am enough.

Man – YOU are enough.

If you believe that, you wouldn’t be threatened by ME.


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This beautiful post originally appeared on my friend Amber Jone’s Facebook timeline, where she regularly ministers with inspiring and encouraging messages.  Her husband Dale and my husband Logan grew up together and remain close friends.  Both Amber and Dale are pastors at Forest Park Church in Elizabeth City, NC.  Her bio on their website says:  “[Amber’s] role is to provide creativity and style to Forest Park, during the weekend services and online. Amber has a passion for the Arts and is talented in many aspects, including music, drama, design, fashion, and social media. She has been singing in churches since she was eight years old and has served on Praise and Worship teams since she was a teenager. She is passionate about seeing people recognize the love and grace that is offered through a relationship with Jesus Christ. Her other passions include her family, music, Ecuador missions, friends, and shoes. Amber married the love of her life, Dale Jones, in May 2001. They both share the love of music and have ministered together through singing since they met. They both serve as Worship leaders in the FPC Worship Band. Her heart also belongs to two other guys – her sons Barrett, born in 2004, and Chandler, born in 2007. Amber earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Elementary Education and was employed by the Elizabeth City Pasquotank Schools from 1999-2004. In 2004, she became a stay-at-home mom. Amber’s favorite passage of scripture is 2 Corinthians 5:17 ‘This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!'”

Her post also included this disclaimer: “This is not about the men close to me. I am surrounded in my inner circle with men who are very supportive of me and women in general.”  What a gift!

And I can’t leave this post up without also blessing you with Amber and her brother Ricky Braddy’s beautiful singing in a service at FPC (posted by their mom, of course!):

How Second Chance Africa is Providing Innovative Therapy to Trauma Victims in Africa

When I was a student at Gordon College, I attended church in Beverly Farms, near another liberal arts institution, Endicott College. A beautiful, artistic, Brazilian poet from Endicott also attended church there and we hit it off like Anne-and-Diana-style Kindred Spirits.  I remember horsing around with Jana at church retreats and attending poetry readings, musical performances, and more together.  When she graduated, I got to meet her family from Brazil and celebrate her milestone with an American Idol themed Karaoke party.  I promise to come back and insert a picture of the two of us when I am able to locate my college album!

As we moved on in life, we stayed in touch occasionally through email, and then two years ago my globe-trotting friend was back in New England and made a special visit up to Maine.  While she was here, she received her acceptance to her Ph.D. program in Neuroscience at the University of Sydney, and she also had a promising Skype meeting about a non-profit she had begun in Liberia called Second Chance Africa.  It was an honor to share these mountain-top moments with her!

sankofa birdYears ago, Jana had embarked on a back-packing adventure that brought her through Africa and face-to-face with lives torn apart by the trauma of war.  She was moved with compassion, so she stayed in a refugee camp and helped, and recognized that little was being done to address trauma.  She began Second Chance Africa in 2008 and has operated on a shoe-string budget through crowd-sourcing, offering therapy to over 7,000.  And now she has developed an innovative therapy app that will extend her life-changing therapy groups to thousands and hopefully millions in the near future.  Jana is calling this the Sankofa Project, after the sankofa bird that walks forward while looking back over its shoulder, representing the importance of reflecting on the past in order to move ahead into the future.

Watch this short video for a quick description of the Sankofa Project:

I’ve had the great honor of joining the Second Chance Africa board as the Secretary and state-side rep to assist with banking needs and receive mailings.  Last week, I met Jana at the airport and we accomplished tasks big and small (banking, printing, laundry, etc.) in a matter of hours before she flew to Liberia to launch her app with trauma therapy groups.  She is relying on crowd-funding once again to make this project successful. Donations can be made here.   This is an opportunity where even a small donation can make a big impact, and I assure you that Jana and her team are motivated by tremendous love and a desire to change lives. Please share their mission with your friends and family!

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Jana providing therapy to refugees in Liberia.

On her website, there are moving testimonials from people who have already been treated through Jana’s organization, Second Chance Africa.  Here are just a few:

“I really wanted to write you in the second week that you left, but I really wanted to see if the transformation that took place my life was something real or magical. I am convinced that it was something real that took place in my life. I want to be grateful to God who directed you in Ghana to the Liberian Refugee. I am grateful that I ever met you. There’s no more nightmares, bad dreams running every night for safety. I can see myself as somebody still useful in life. I believed that there is hope for the future me. I know that with your traumatic therapy treatment you can heal anybody who have been living with trauma for twenty to fifty years. I am saying this because of what took place in my life. I have been living with trauma for the past sixteen years and for you to make me overcome my trauma in less than a month it is something I can’t still believe. However, I am bit sad because there are many Liberians who are going back home still traumatized. UNHCR have been doing well for REFUGEE all over the world but we need more trauma counselors to help these people going back home. Many Liberians do not want to go back home but they do not have any choice. For now there is no more resettlement program for Liberians refugee by UNHCR, therefore they have go back home. It is my prayer that you will be able to get help from other people”. – S.G.

“While at the Monrovia Central Prison, an organization by the name of Second Chance visited the prison and we were helped by the means of their training, such as exercises, counseling and lectures. I personally benefited, there were exercises we were introduced to that when you are down or depressed, it helped you lift your spirit. It helped me many days to relax and have a good night rest despite my problems at the prison. It made me at times to even think that there was a second chance in my life. And I will like to encourage them to keep up the good works, because it made people feel important, that whatever problems in their lives is not the end of their lives. May the good God bless their effort and keep them strong”. M.R.

“She guided through the trauma healing and from that healing today I am able to recover, I came to myself, I came to my senses. I really feel good that now I am a human being, and I am safe, I feel fine in my body” –  F.D.

sankofa bono

To Jana’s great delight, her friend Bono has been wearing a yellow Sankofa Project bracelet and plugging Jana’s work on U2’s 2017 Joshua Tree Tour! Here is a picture of him wearing the yellow Sankofa Project bracelet.  When it is available, I will update with a link to purchase your own. For only $10, you will receive a pack of 10 bracelets and sponsor a full trauma relief program in a post-war region in Africa, for a group of 10 participants during our field implementation phase in 2017-2018.

To read more about Jana’s work through Second Chance Africa and The Sankofa Project, please visit http://secondchanceafrica.org/sankofa/.  And again, please consider giving to her work here and sharing this project with your friends and family.  Thank you!


P.S.  In addition to her amazing, loving work for trauma victims, my friend is also a brilliant artist.  Check out this painting she showed in a RAW Sydney exhibit last year!sankofa artIn the RAW Sydney post describing her art, they said,

Jana’s work arises from the need to give a voice to her thoughts and ideas that may speak louder through silent speech. Her paintings are not meant to be pleasant to the eye nor serve as a decor piece. Her colours are bold and aggressive. Her aim is to create discomfort and challenge one’s misconceptions about themselves and the world. She is a self-taught artist, and a PhD student specialising in post-traumatic stress. The stories she has heard and the violence she has seen while traveling, working and living in war impacted countries in the Middle East, Africa and Asia deeply affects her artwork imagery and aesthetics of advocacy.

Adam Galinsky: How to speak up for yourself

Here is an inspiring and apropos Ted Talk for the Beautiful Kingdom Warriors to learn from.  Adam Galinsky is a social psychologist who “teaches people all over the world how to inspire others, speak up effectively, lead teams and negotiate successfully.”  In these 15 minutes, he explains why being a woman creates a low-power double bind, and offers research-based tools for expanding your power/acceptable range of behavior:

Here are my top takeaways from the video (I’ve sliced and diced and emphasized the full transcript):

Each of us have something called a range of acceptable behavior. When we stay within our range, we’re rewarded. When we step outside that range, we get punished – we get dismissed or demeaned or even ostracized. Or we lose that raise or that promotion or that deal.

Your power determines your range. When we have lots of power, our range is very wide. We have a lot of leeway in how to behave. But when we lack power, our range narrows. We have very little leeway. The problem is that when our range narrows, that produces something called the low-power double bind – if we don’t speak up, we go unnoticed, but if we do speak up, we get punished.

The gender double bind is women who don’t speak up go unnoticed, and women who do speak up get punished. Oftentimes we see a difference between a man and a woman and think, “Biological cause. There’s something fundamentally different about the sexes.” But in study after study, I’ve found that a better explanation for many sex differences is really power. The low-power double bind means that we have a narrow range, and we lack power. 

We need to find ways to expand our range. And two things really matter. The first: you seem powerful in your own eyes. The second: you seem powerful in the eyes of others. When I feel powerful, I feel confident, not fearful; I expand my own range. When other people see me as powerful, they grant me a wider range. So we need tools to expand our range of acceptable behavior.

The first tool I’m going to give you got discovered in negotiations in an important finding. On average, women make less ambitious offers and get worse outcomes than men at the bargaining table.  Except when they advocate for others, they discover their own range and expand it in their own mind. They become more assertive. This is sometimes called “the mama bear effect.”

But sometimes, we have to advocate for ourselves. One of the most important tools we have to advocate for ourselves is perspective-taking. It’s simply looking at the world through the eyes of another person. When I take your perspective, and I think about what you really want, you’re more likely to give me what I really want.

Another way to be assertive but still be likable is to signal flexibility. When you give people a choice among options, it lowers their defenses, and they’re more likely to accept your offer.

When I’ve asked the question around the world when people feel comfortable speaking up, the number one answer is: “When I have social support in my audience; when I have allies.” We want to get allies on our side. How do we do that? Well, one of the ways is be a mama bear. When we advocate for others, we expand our range in our own eyes and the eyes of others, but we also earn strong allies.

Another way we can earn strong allies is by asking other people for adviceWhen we ask others for advice, they like us because we flatter them, and we’re expressing humility. And this really works to solve the self-promotion double bind – if we don’t advertise our accomplishments, no one notices. And if we do, we’re not likableBut if we ask for advice about one of our accomplishments, we are able to be competent in their eyes but also be likeable.

Another time we feel more confident speaking up is when we have expertise. Expertise gives us credibility. When we have high power, we already have credibility. We only need good evidence. When we lack power, we don’t have the credibility. We need excellent evidence.

And one of the ways we can come across as an expert is by tapping into our passion. We give ourselves the courage, in our own eyes, to speak up, but we also get the permission from others to speak up. 

I highly recommend you watch the video and think about how you can expand your own range of acceptable behavior – by advocating for others, gaining allies and social support, seeing things from others’ perspectives and offering flexible solutions, and asking for advice.  Good stuff.

img_3767I was obviously connecting the dots on how women are subjugated in patriarchal religious denominations under the assumption of biological differences, when the real problem is lack of power.  Women are punished for their “ambition” to follow the call of God on their life.

I have seen the power of advocating for other women in the Church to have opportunities and credibility.  I love being a mama bear in the Church and encourage you to speak up for others as well.  Think your “Director of Children’s Ministry” should have the same “Pastor” title as the other staff members?  Speak up!  Think your friend has the gift of teaching?  Speak up!  See gifts in the women around you?  Tell them!  They probably aren’t hearing that from many others.  In doing these things, your own confidence will grow.  And couldn’t we all use more confidence?


Thanks for visiting The Beautiful Kingdom Warriors!  If you’d like to keep up with our posts, Follow us here!  We also post links from around the web every day on our Facebook page.  Be a mama bear with us!!  It’s a fight worth waging. 🙂

#ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear trended on Twitter this week

This Tuesday night, Sarah Bessey, author of Jesus Feminist, started the hashtag #ThingsOnlyChristianWomenHear and it took off.  Here are my favorites:

This is a drop in the bucket on contributions to this thread.  Definitely checkout the hashtag and scroll through the sobering collection.

Then Christians began redeeming the conversation with the hashtag #ThingsChristianWomenShouldHear:

This is my prayer too:

Amen.


Thanks for visiting The Beautiful Kingdom Warriors.  We are a community of Christians who believe that men and women are equal in the Kingdom and indispensable partners in Kingdom building and restoration.  Follow us hear and on Facebook!

It’s Okay to Walk Away

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I’m a nail biter and drink my coffee sans foam art, but otherwise this is totally me.

I made a rash decision yesterday to comment on a Desiring God post by John Piper about the decline of male headship theology.  He was saying that “Christlike headship will endure because it is true to God’s word,” and in explaining its decline, he said that those who are becoming egalitarians are being influenced by secularism or are bitter.

This was my comment:

I can tell you why I became an egalitarian, if you are really curious. I grew up Conservative Baptist, went to an Evangelical college, went to a reformed seminary, maintaining my complementarian worldview/interpretive lens. Along the way I met some egalitarians who deeply loved God, had beautiful marriages, and held to the Bible’s authority with a high view of Scripture. Not like I had been taught egalitarians were like. Then one day, as a stay-at-home homeschooling mom, I was sitting in a Bible study and heard God say loud and clear to me: “I want you to co-pastor with your husband.” I was not reading “liberal” theologians, I had little “secular” influence in my life, and I was not bitter about my role. I am naturally a submissive, quiet person. So I started studying the issue of women in ministry and was convinced by egalitarian interpretations. I think it is helpful to talk to actual egalitarians about why they believe what they believe rather than speculating and painting them as secular or bitter. The Bible tells us to consider others better than ourselves, so in the least, we can give others the benefit of the doubt rather than mischaracterizing their motivations. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of our complementarianism/egalitarianism, so let us love one another.

I regretted this comment pretty quickly, after receiving the first two comments:

Ken Edwards: Anytime someone says they’ve heard from the Lord I always hope they’ll compare what they’ve heard with scripture. If the two don’t line up one might be wise to question who was speaking.

Annie Carder: Your definition of “submissive” is off. There’s your problem.

I sat on these comments for an hour, telling myself, “You don’t have to reply.  You can walk away,” then I replied,

I realize I posted in complementarian territory, and we all don’t know each other from Adam. Just wanted to say that the overall premise of the argument that egalitarians are influenced by secularism or bitterness is 1) unloving, 2) counter to my experience knowing many egalitarians, 3) untrue of my own change to egalitarianism. Just wanted to make the suggestion that y’all talk to egalitarians as brothers and sisters in Christ rather than maligning them and never engaging with their actual arguments.

At what point do you walk away?  I should have trusted my instinct.  I was in an unsafe place.  When complementarians comment on posts on The Beautiful Kingdom Warriors FB page, I always treat them with respect, kindness, and hospitality.  It is rare that I am treated well on complementarian playgrounds.  They assume that I am worldly and bitter, so they gift me with “tough love.”  Like this man who emerged next…

Steve Hulbert: But then you’re not engaging with what’s being said to you…

I took the bait.

To Ken Edwards: I definitely did. Had to read egalitarian theologians and pastors to understand their interpretation of headship, creation order, women in ministry, etc. Have been taught the complementarian perspective all my life and it always seemed clear and right to me, so I was shocked by the idea of co-pastoring. Also have never experienced anything like that before or since. The next day, someone recommended the book “How I Changed My Mind About Women in Leadership” and this article by Dr. Walt Kaiser, and I haven’t really stopped reading since then (five or six years). http://www.walterckaiserjr.com/women.html

To Annie Carder: Didn’t realize I had defined submission in my original post. Was just trying to say that submitting to my husband as the head of the family was not hard nor was it making me bitter or power hungry. I find that egalitarians take submission further, with mutual submission.

To Steve Hulbert: I was regretting my post, feeling gun-shy about being the odd one out in this comment thread.  I appreciate everyone’s kindness.

Then Steve started in.  He stuck around until he told me to get lost, pretty much.  But here’s how he began:

Steve Hulbert: I’m reading that link and it’s pretty much what I would have expected: poring over many small details and blaming mistranslation for what the text appears to say. It doesn’t make any sense in the context of Corinthians 11 to say that the sign of authority is a sign of the woman’s power when the preceding verse has said that woman was created for man and not vice versa, and earlier that the man is the head of woman. I’m no expert to interpret that passage but I notice he’s only referred to one verse and nothing about the rest of the context.

To which I replied,

Thanks for reading the article! I hate debating but can send links at light speed if anyone ever wants more info. Another egalitarian resource is newlife.id.au. Here’s her post on 1 Corinthians 11: http://newlife.id.au/…/the-chiasm-in-1-corinthians-11…/

Then got this gem, which I ignored:

Enoque Júnio Calado: So did Mohamed, so did John Smith. All have claimed they heard the voice of God and created false religions. No further revelation apart from the bible should be made into doctrine, and those who plainly deny the scriptures should be anathema.

Sola Scriptura

And this,

Jason Warner: Such a facinating discussion. As I see it…evangelical comps and evangelical egalitarians essentially function in the same way. Russel Moore has commented on this as well – regarding the inconsistency of comps on paper and in function – that comps want to check the comp box. Piper and Grudem created the comp concept, as we know it now, within the last 30 years. But even those within the Reformed camp do not agree on what it actually means or how far to take the concept (home, church, work, Trinity, etc.). Last year’s ESS uproar is an example of the “infighting.”

I liked that one.  Then got this,

Joye Stewart: Found this on the internet..

The place to begin in this, as in other biblical questions, is to ask, “What does the Bible say?” Even a cursory reading of the pertinent texts reveals three important observations: 1) there were no known women pastors in New Testament times; 2) none of the instructions regarding church order include instructions for women pastors; and 3) some texts on church order explicitly forbid women to occupy that role. Paul, in 1 Tim. 2:12, states, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man” (NIV) . This verse is introduced by a statement that women should learn “in silence,” and it is followed by the statement that “she must be silent.” The word silence means being possessed by a calmness of spirit and peaceful disposition. It is set as the opposite to “teaching” and “having authority over a man.” Paul does not expect that women will not or can not learn or teach (compare with Titus 2:3-5 and 2 Tim. 1:5; 3:14,15). He states that they cannot teach or have authority over men. Thus, they cannot have a pastoral position, or perform the pastoral function, for that puts them in authority over men.

If the scripture says women are not to teach or have authority over men, then I would follow the scripture over the voices in my head.

I didn’t have to sit around deciding whether or not to reply to this comment.  Outright misinformation needs correction, for the sake of silent observers.  I said,

In reply to point 1, there are many known women in ministry in the New Testament, even in relation to men. Junia, Lydia, Peter’s daughters, Phoebe, etc. https://godswordtowomen.org/pastors.htm

Per point 2, many instructions have been interpreted with male pronouns where the original text was inclusive. The Holy Spirit descended on men and women at Pentecost, the gifts of the Spirit are never gender specific. It was prophesied that “your sons and daughters will prophecy” and that has come to pass.

Per point 3, I believe the egalitarian interpretations of those passages are compelling and align more with the overall message of Scripture – men and women are both fully created in the image of God and were both given dominion and authority by God. Both men and women are told to submit to one another and to serve and make disciples. The first missionary was a woman (the Samaritan woman at the well evangelized her whole city), and the first person to preach the resurrected Christ was Mary.

Jason Warner commented again, and he seems to be a super nice complementarian. Very kind and gracious.

Jason Warner: Ruth – comps have strong biblical support as it relates to some specifics (elders, etc.) too. You bring up good points to consider though. The idea that women in the Bible didn’t always operate within the modern “comp” structure is an example of how difficult it is to pinpoint what comp actually looks like on any consistent level. Once one gets past elders and pastors (Catholics would then be comps too if that’s the measuring stick) it become merely, in my view, much about talk and labels. I’d like to see Piper and OT Deborah work this out together …now that would be interesting!

Me to Jason Warner: yes, I agree. Comp theology always made sense to me….until it didn’t anymore.

And then Steve got back to me.

Steve Hulbert: So you don’t have an answer to my point then.

Please don’t spam this page with questionable links.

Does Steve run the Desiring God page?  Did he even open the link?  Marg Mowzcko’s blog is a highly rated Bible scholarship website.

Got these lovely comments next:

Julie Castin Cordeiro: praise the Lord!!! I am getting a master in theology…my husband is a 3year convert. God has called me to ministry not him.

Ruth dont waste your time…God has called you be happy and submit to His calling. If these who object you can prove your gifts are from the devil, then ok…otherwise praise the Lord and serve . And by the way ridiculous those who compare your quiet time with the Lord with Mohammed…like they never read and heard God speak!!!

Rosie Turner: Thank you for sharing Ruth, I agree with you 100% and it is encouraging to hear your voice on this thread and after reading such an upsetting article from DG. Thank you.

And these not-so-nice comments:

Darnell Turner: That was Satan not God.

Joye Stewart: Sorry but I don’t buy into that Ruth. You’re forgetting your place. Whenever someone says God spoke to them I always cringe. The devil is a liar. The best lies are the ones that are mix: ed with a little truth. It doesn’t say that you should be a doormat in the Bible but you are not equal with men and you’re not to have authority over them. You’re making up your own gospel to suit your fleshly desires. The devil was proud and wanted to be equal too, he wanted to be God and he was cast down for his rebellion. The devil spoke to Eve and she ignored Gods instruction seems like a mistake a lot of women nowadays are making.

Steve likes Joye’s comments.

Had the conversation with myself again, “What are you doing here?  Walk away!”

Didn’t listen.  Things went downhill quickly from here.

To Steve Hulbert: Walt Kaiser was the president of Gordon-Conwell Seminary, where Tim Keller went. Not a scholar to dismiss, someone to engage with and consider. I got the feeling that you were trying to find the weakest argument in his article that you could defeat and I am not interested in debate. I find that debate is not a fruitful endeavor when both sides are in defense mode rather than listening to understand. My primary beef with the original article by John Piper was that he was maligning egalitarians to complementarians who are eager to agree. If you really believe male headship will stand the test of time, you can defend it without tearing down your “enemies,” who are actually part of the Church. I shared another article on the passage you asked about because if you want to understand egalitarian theology, an actual theologian will explain it better than I can.

To Joye Stewart: Paul said that Adam was the one who sinned. Both sinned, both were punished, and that is where hierarchy among gender began. In the Creation story, God told both Adam and Eve to rule over Creation. The Hebrew “ezer kenegdo” that is translated “suitable helper” literally means “corresponding strength.” God is repeatedly our “ezer” throughout the Bible, swooping in to “help” God’s people in battle, and is in no way subordinate to us. “Kenegdo” connotes equality, partnership. Together, men and women are a strong, dynamic duo. No gender hierarchy in God’s original design. Makes sense that God would give Adam a partner rather than an assistant for the big task of ruling Creation. Two heads are better than one, it’s not good to be unequally yoked, etc.

Steve Hulbert: I didn’t look for a weak argument. I found one on the first page.

Sarah Allen: And yet, in Britain there are women in the role of prime minister and head of police, there are women working as judges, police officers, CEOs, university lectures… everywhere there are women in positions of authority; instructing, guiding and managing the lives of men and other women. Why can equality not translate to the church?

Me to Steve Hulbert: Ok, I respect your pov. We probably aren’t going to change each others minds but I appreciate your gentlemanly engagement.

Steve Hulbert: “Why can the church not be more like the world”

I wish every egalitarian would be so honest

Me to Steve Hulbert: patriarchy is the way of the world. Although the tide is shifting towards equality in some cultures, we aren’t there. It would be nice if the Church were leading the way, as the early Church did in elevating the status of women.

Steve Hulbert: Ruth I feel rather nauseous hearing you talk about something God has clearly instituted as “the world’s way”. I think perhaps we should quit while we’re behind.

Steve Hulbert: It grieves me that godly submission is being misunderstood and resisted in the church as in the world. God led me to start taking a submissive attitude to my father and it’s been a challenge as I’ve always liked to think I know better than him. But it’s a game changer in terms of how God is able to bless you. Submission is so much at the heart of God’s way of life that you forfeit your blessings in a huge way by not embracing it. Joye will probably tell you precisely that if you listen instead of arguing. Feminism is of the enemy. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and that’s what feminist is. I’ve had to learn to put aside the MRA stuff and the bitterness it engenders which is fine for the world but not fit for God’s people. You’ll be misled into thinking feminism is better and it’s not. Entitlement culture is not God’s culture. Grasping for equality is the antithesis of Christlikeness. In fact making sinners feel or appear equal has never been a biblical concern or slavery would have been prohibited.

Since I was making Steve nauseous with my argumentativeness, I let him have the last word and will leave things at that.  I realize that I don’t have to attend every argument I am invited to, but it is a fine line figuring out when you are having a fruitful conversation and when things are becoming toxic.  It’s not every day that I get compared to Mohamed and John Smith, get called entitled, bitter, grasping.  I reject those words.

This comment thread was also a good reminder to me to watch my words so that I do not do this to others.  It is tough to oppose a doctrine that I believe is inherently abusive without demeaning those who hold to it.  How else can you describe a system that subjugates some under the authority of others due to one factor alone: gender?  Not spiritual maturity, callings or gifts.  Gender.  GENITALIA.

Hierarchy in the Church sidelines the majority and celebrates the ministry of the few, the John Pipers.  Their words have authority and power while others, who also have a relationship with God and have the power of the Holy Spirit within them, are powerless in the Church.  It is not just women but also most men who find their God-given authority and gifts unused and unvalued in hierarchical churches.

We must also consider the epidemic of domestic violence and emotional abuse in the Church.  Or the epidemic of gender violence, rape culture, sexism, FGM and femicide, financial inequality, objectification and sex slavery, etc., in our world.  Let the Church be a force for the empowerment and honoring of women and girls!  Let us heal the brokenness that patriarchy has brought to the world since the Fall!

Typing conversations is hard.  It is easy to misunderstand and hear unintended tones.  The moral of this story should be, love one another, give one another the benefit of the doubt, and if your gut is telling you to walk away, listen! 😉


Here’s a link to the comment thread on FB if you’d like to see how it has devolved since I posted this article.

Don’t miss this book sale!

17796847_10155246093601473_4651034078428381506_nChristians for Biblical Equality has slashed prices on egalitarian books in their online shop.  Most are at least half off, and many are as low as $2 or $4!  There are also several titles available in Spanish, Creole, Arabic, and other languages.  Stock your library while you can get a bargain!  And don’t forget to add the free Journals to your cart.

CLICK HERE FOR CBE’S SALE

Happy shopping. You’re welcome. 🙂